Seeing more bullshit "HTML is a programming language" discourse, and uh, damnit
HTML meets some definitions of programming language, but would be way less useful if it was used that way.
Stop gate keeping Programmer as the only Good profession and understand that other roles and jobs are as valuable, and as part of the tech ecosystem. Programmer is not the Best Job or the Good Job, it's a fucking role and people who don't do it aren't lesser, so telling a designer they're a programmer because HTML is fucking patronizing and degrading to *their actual skills and profession*.
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Ryan Germann
in reply to silverwizard • • •HTML + CSS is a presentation layer. Browsers have a built-in stylesheet to render certain HTML elements with default formatting.
JavaScript is a programming language that operates very well on HTML's DOM.
Calling HTML a "programming language" is disingenuous. Nothing is being "programmed".
silverwizard
in reply to Ryan Germann • •Listen, the technical argument is long and complicated and there are valid views on both sides of that.
My problem is the side that says it's degrading to say it *isn't* because they think that only programmers get the seal of Good.
Ryan Germann
in reply to silverwizard • • •HTML is not a programming language... but web site design where the lines between "content" and "interactive user interface" is verrrry blurry absolutely requires the discipline of a programmer.
Arguably, anyone suggesting HTML, in and of itself, is a "programming language" says more about their notions of software development and "programming" than it says about HTML. Srsly.
Ryan Germann
in reply to Ryan Germann • • •<h1>Title</h1> is not a program.
HTML should not be equated with "Web site design" nor "web application development" because you can absolutely design a Web site and hardly use any HTML at all.
silverwizard
in reply to Ryan Germann • •So smarter people than either of us have argued about this
Is <script> HTML
Is CSS HTML?
Is DOM manipulation programming?
What about browser?
If you send a message from one computer to another containing instructions, is that programming?
What if you only control the message contents?
Make sure to answer in a way that doesn't remove PHP or Ruby on Rails.
But that is a fight I have no dog in, sorry.
Ryan Germann
in reply to silverwizard • • •the <script> element is HTML of course, but it's not a program, the javascript INSIDE it is a program.
<h1> is not an instruction. It means nothing without a specific piece of software, and the fact that the rendering of content wrapped in <h1></h1> is not consistent across user agents and can be altered by also-not-html CSS or JavaScript reinforces that in my mind.
PHP is not HTML. PHP can contain bits of HTML for rendering.
HTML in and of itself is not a programming language.
silverwizard
in reply to Ryan Germann • •I can reinterpret PHP with a different PHP implementation, see mail() for a very simple example
mail() means nothing without a different piece of software, and its behaviour changes between different computers on which I personally run it
Ryan Germann
in reply to silverwizard • • •silverwizard
in reply to Ryan Germann • •I, do not care about the argument personally.
I am not a programmer, and offended by the idea that being a programmer is more valuable than the other professions that occur in a tech company
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Ryan Germann
in reply to Ryan Germann • • •