FuckFuckNo. 🤦♀️
I just want a search engine that works. I have zero need for a godawful "AI" hallucinating mansplainer in my results. Just… no.
Time to move off of DDG. What else is out there?
Edit: yes, it seems to be for real:
reddit.com/r/duckduckgo/commen…
#DuckDuckGo #AI
This entry was edited (7 months ago)
Hypolite Petovan likes this.
reshared this
rail
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •rail
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 reshared this.
Alexia :neocat_flag_trans:
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •@Mojeek is often my go-to, but many people dislike it due to how different the search results are.
You may be interested in aggregating results using SearxNG, maybe? searx.space
SearXNG instances
searx.spaceMichał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 reshared this.
Sam
in reply to Alexia :neocat_flag_trans: • • •MarkAssPandi
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to MarkAssPandi • • •katzenberger
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •social.tchncs.de/@erAck/112214…
@MarkAssPandi
Matt × 🇳🇴 🇺🇦
in reply to katzenberger • • •@katzenberger @MarkAssPandi All search engines make money from advertising. You just expect them to be 100% free to use and ad-free and cover their expenses how?
I don't think its unreasonable for Qwant to ask to show you ads, especially if they are implemented in a privacy-preserving non-tracking way. The alternative would be to pay a subscription for Qwant.
Elsewhere, Mojeek is nice, but they also introduced AI recently.
blog.mojeek.com/2024/04/mojeek…
Mojeek Search Summaries
blog.mojeek.comMarkAssPandi
in reply to Matt × 🇳🇴 🇺🇦 • • •Matt × 🇳🇴 🇺🇦
in reply to MarkAssPandi • • •Someone should update the comparison table on Wikipedia to help people find a good search engine.
🔴 Google = AI / Ads / Tracking
🔴 Bing = AI / Ads / Tracking
🔴 Brave = Cryptocurrency / AI / Anti-LGBT*
🟠 DuckDuckGo = Ads / AI
🟠 Kagi = AI
🟠 Mojeek = Ads / AI
🟠 You.com = Ads / AI
🟡 Qwant = Ads
🟡 Startpage = Ads
🟡 Searx = Complicated
🟢 ???
* Brave CEO has previously financially supported anti-gay marriage law campaigns
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_…
Wikimedia list article
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)reshared this
Jay Hannah reshared this.
Liminal witch 🧙♀️ Sarah
in reply to Matt × 🇳🇴 🇺🇦 • • •@matt @MarkAssPandi @katzenberger @svenja One thing I'm missing is a search engine that offers subscription.
I don't like subscriptions that much but for a search engine I think it's the most viable model if we want to avoid Ads and tracking. Someone has to pay to keep the lights on.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Liminal witch 🧙♀️ Sarah • • •@xgebi both Kagi and Mojeek do.
@matt @MarkAssPandi @katzenberger @svenja
Dragonjion
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Dragonjion • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •mojeek.com/services/search/web…
mojeek.com/services/search/sit…
Mojeek Search API
www.mojeek.comphi1997
in reply to Matt × 🇳🇴 🇺🇦 • • •Edit: I made this post before I learned Mojeek had added AI summarization. I am disappointed in them.
@MarkAssPandi @rysiek @katzenberger
Matt × 🇳🇴 🇺🇦
in reply to phi1997 • • •@phi1997 @MarkAssPandi @katzenberger Linked up in the thread ☝️ but also here for your convenience 👇
blog.mojeek.com/2024/04/mojeek…
Mojeek Search Summaries
blog.mojeek.comsilverwizard
in reply to phi1997 • •phi1997
in reply to silverwizard • • •I had not seen that yet when I made that post.
silverwizard likes this.
Jeremy Yap
in reply to Matt × 🇳🇴 🇺🇦 • • •@matt @katzenberger @MarkAssPandi
For what it's worth, if we have to do the "lesser evils" thing, I don't see how dropping Mojeek (which has its own index) due to LLM in favor of what will almost inevitably be something using Google or Bing's index is a net positive.
Really the next step is to consider smaller independent indexes (Stract, Right Dao, Alexandria, Yep, etc.) but it seems most folks consider those not usable yet. (personally I disagree, but that's its own can of worms).
Matt × 🇳🇴 🇺🇦
in reply to Jeremy Yap • • •@jeruyyap Yuppp. I’ve personally been quite happy with Mojeek and considering I’m making AI shit at work it would be very hypocritical of me to stop using them for that.
I’m just trying to state facts, and not lump my personal opinion in here. 🙂
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Matt × 🇳🇴 🇺🇦 • • •Jeremy Yap
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •@matt @Mojeek
If you're interested in other options then @Seirdy did an excellent piece on the topic that pretty much covers what's out there for now:
seirdy.one/posts/2021/03/10/se…
A look at search engines with their own indexes
Seirdy’s HomeMichał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 reshared this.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Jeremy Yap • • •@jeruyyap thank you, that is very useful!
@matt @Mojeek @Seirdy
Es(tiss)val 🌻
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Es(tiss)val 🌻 • • •@alice seems so:
reddit.com/r/duckduckgo/commen…
For now it's only available in the DDG browser it seems.
Es(tiss)val 🌻 reshared this.
Es(tiss)val 🌻
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Es(tiss)val 🌻 • • •Es(tiss)val 🌻
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Emmanuel Revah
in reply to Es(tiss)val 🌻 • • •Es(tiss)val 🌻
in reply to Emmanuel Revah • • •Emmanuel Revah
in reply to Es(tiss)val 🌻 • • •I'm not sure how suggestions work.
Startpage is basically a anonymisation proxy to Google search. It gives good results, but it doesn't solve the centrality of Googles point of view of the web.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startpag…
Internet search engine
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Es(tiss)val 🌻
in reply to Emmanuel Revah • • •gnu/m43
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •reshared this
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 and Es(tiss)val 🌻 reshared this.
Es(tiss)val 🌻
in reply to gnu/m43 • • •gnu/m43 likes this.
Mina
in reply to gnu/m43 • • •Es(tiss)val 🌻 likes this.
Eh?!?
in reply to gnu/m43 • • •Also, is it limited to some geographic areas?
Es(tiss)val 🌻
in reply to Eh?!? • • •𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Cumulonimbus
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Cumulonimbus • • •@cumulonimbus Kagi had the Brave kerfuffle:
kagifeedback.org/d/2808-recons…
Kagi's main developer's responses in the thread were… underwhelming to say the least.
Reconsider your partnership with Brave - Kagi Feedback
kagifeedback.orgElias Probst
in reply to Cumulonimbus • • •help.kagi.com/kagi/ai/assistan…
Assistant | Kagi's Docs
help.kagi.comJana
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Emmanuel Revah
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •The Privacy Advocate (dt.gl)
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to The Privacy Advocate (dt.gl) • • •@Decentralize wait, who's partnered with Leo from Brave?
And who's "Leo from Brave"?
The Privacy Advocate (dt.gl)
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 reshared this.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to The Privacy Advocate (dt.gl) • • •pa27
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to pa27 • • •mstdn.social/@xarvos@outerheav…
🚲 (@xarvos@outerheaven.club)
mstdn.socialpa27
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to pa27 • • •woffs
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to woffs • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •neilzone.co.uk/2024/01/from-ka…
help.kagi.com/kagi/ai/assistan…
Assistant | Kagi's Docs
help.kagi.comVinnie (any)
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Bèr Kessels 🐝 🚐 🏄 🌱
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •How do you know it will be a "hallucinating mansplainer in my results" ?
Why do you think it will?
Jumping to conclusions and then getting angry at those conclusions is not a very good way to get through life....
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Bèr Kessels 🐝 🚐 🏄 🌱 • • •@berkes I'm doing fine with going through life, thanks. And anything that touches ChatGPT or any other LLM in the context of a search product to me is super sus.
There's ample evidence of LLM chatbots providing completely made up results. I am not going to wait until DDG decides it's "good enough" and integrates it more into their stuff.
RedAlert (Michael)
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •swisscows.com/de
Deine private und anonyme Suchmaschine Swisscows
swisscows.comqeef
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Startpage - Private Search Engine. No Tracking. No Search History.
www.startpage.comEatsbluecrayon
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Daniel
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Why not continue to use DDG but simply don't use the optional experimental functionality there?
This would give them valuable feedback for what percentage of their user base is interested in this technology.
From what I can see it's optional and an experiment, nothing they force on everyone?
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Daniel • • •Jon Yoder
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •ThomasToSpace
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Ville Ruohonen :debian:
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •@MetaGer For me Metager has been pretty solid
metager.org
MetaGer: Privacy Protected Search & Find
metager.orgkjuh :antifa:🇺🇦🇪🇺🇩🇪😷
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Startpage - Private Search Engine. No Tracking. No Search History.
www.startpage.comJill ☁
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •it really sucks! Even #Ecosia has an AI chat now. 🤮
@ Those responsible for these engines, at least let us choose and give us the possibility to deactivate this crap, please. 🙏
Jeremy Yap
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •I feel the question of "what else is there" depends on what you're actually looking for.
If you're just looking to use a large index while minimizing the data you're sending back, then DuckDuckGo still works for that. DuckDuckGo and Qwant use Bing's index, while Startpage uses Google's index, and any of those would work for that purpose.
If you're looking for a independent index for general use, Mojeek probably has the largest index that is not Google, Bing, or Yandex.
Jeremy Yap
in reply to Jeremy Yap • • •Now if you're trying to avoid search engines that are into LLMs, then your options are going to depend on whether the index provider matters.
If only the service you are directly using matters, then you have plenty of options as there's seemingly endless search engines using Google or Bing (especially Bing).
If where the index comes from matters then you're pretty much out of large mainstream indexes and into small independent ones and a major change in search habits.
Jo Dusepo :oud: جوهانا دوسپو
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Jo Dusepo :oud: جوهانا دوسپو • • •noodlejetski
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Oliwier Jaszczyszyn
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •SearXNG instance.
Edit: corrected the domain
Penguinflight
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Simon Hobeck
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •The reddit post by DDG says it is just an addon for its browser and aiming for a freemium model.
It does not affects its search results and it allow speople to experiement with LLM whilst still respcting privacy.
I will continue to use DDG so long as their search results are not infected by AI noise.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Simon Hobeck • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •Ornaled
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •(肉) R_Rou 🇮🇨
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •jim
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •silverwizard
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • •like this
Hypolite Petovan likes this.
Bob Jonkman
in reply to silverwizard • • •@silverwizard
I've been using either @Mojeek or #StartPage on my browsers. Over the last two years of using #Mojeek it has become noticeably better, but not so much for StartPage...
silverwizard
in reply to Bob Jonkman • •Mojeek
in reply to silverwizard • • •silverwizard
in reply to Mojeek • •Mojeek
in reply to silverwizard • • •Search Settings - Mojeek
www.mojeek.comMichał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •@archliberal Kagi has AI crap as well, plus there's the Brave thing.
kagifeedback.org/d/2808-recons…
help.kagi.com/kagi/ai/assistan…
@GossiTheDog
Reconsider your partnership with Brave - Kagi Feedback
kagifeedback.orgJay
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Jeltron
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •Alfred R. Baudisch
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Es(tiss)val 🌻
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •That would indeed be enough not to trust them anymore but it's there on the website from Icecat/Firefox too (see previous posts).
#FuckFuckNo
1stAmendmentAbuser
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to 1stAmendmentAbuser • • •@1stAmendmentAbuser can you point me to an "open-source, uncensored AI" that is a model of the size needed for this kind of tasks, please?
Llama does not count, it's been trained at Facebook and nobody really knows what went into the training data.
1stAmendmentAbuser
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •RolingMetal
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Recently I started using Ecosia, and it's not bad :)
It uses results from Bing.
But I believe you can also get results from Google, if you want to give up some more privacy.
And apparently, I planted 3 trees already :)
For Google like search results, I'll use Startpage. And for result not coming from big-tech, I like to use Brave search.
Danie van der Merwe
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •lj·rk
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •FoolishOwl
Unknown parent • • •@cyrus @firn SearXNG is a proxy that searches and collates results from several search engines. It's useful, but it's not a search engine per se, and dependent upon them.
There are some open feature requests to add ChatGPT to SearXNG, e.g.,
github.com/searxng/searxng/iss…
Add support for Chat GPT/ChatGPT engine · Issue #2008 · searxng/searxng
GitHubAlexia :neocat_flag_trans:
Unknown parent • • •@firn SearxNG
Searx is no longer properly maintained
zetabeta
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •as a reminder, tell a small hint which is worse.
some could interpret this toot in a way that i go back to google, it's equally bad.
i still think duckduckgo is less worse. actually a lot.
Alexia :neocat_flag_trans:
in reply to FoolishOwl • • •@foolishowl
adam solove
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •🗻🏔️⛰️🌋
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Andy
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •always vpn to your own host running all your happy tools. One being SearXNG. github.com/searxng/searxng
Goes in a docker easily. It’s nice having a multi engine that cleans and sanitizes along the way.
GitHub - searxng/searxng: SearXNG is a free internet metasearch engine which aggregates results from various search services and databases. Users are neither tracked nor profiled.
GitHubFoolishOwl
in reply to Alexia :neocat_flag_trans: • • •@cyrus I figured you'd know, but I'm seeing the root of this thread getting boosted a lot, and people are clearly looking for options, so I thought it was worth making it clear.
I also think that since it's a feature request, it would help if people pushed back on it. This particular feature request would just add it as one more optional engine among a large number, which can be disabled in the config or by the user, so I'm not terribly worried about it.
▶️
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Simon 🥧 man 🥥🌴 🇺🇸
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Simon 🥧 man 🥥🌴 🇺🇸 • • •LAF and LOVE
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •sqrt(-1)
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Dianora (Diane Bruce)
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 reshared this.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Dianora (Diane Bruce) • • •⠠⠵ avuko
in reply to Ornaled • • •Fabi
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •@jcrabapple how does it make sense to defend "AI" in Search Engine B in a thread that started with me complaining about Search Engine A adding "AI"? Honestly, I am confused here. Help me out.
@archliberal @GossiTheDog
Jcrabapple 💙
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •@StillIRise1963 yeah, the whole search engines space is bad.
At this point there doesn't seem to be a decent search engine with no AI integration what-so-ever. Sigh.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •@jcrabapple DDG is not "shoving" anything down my throat either.
@archliberal @GossiTheDog
Jcrabapple 💙
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Walter van Holst
in reply to ⠠⠵ avuko • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
Unknown parent • • •JuliaR
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Henning Deters
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Estarriol, Cat owned Dragon
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Falcon Darkstar
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Genders: ♾️, 🟪⬛🟩; Soni L.
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •great. let us know if you find a way out of the search engine rollercoaster entirely...
search engines are bad and cannot be trusted. :/