FuckFuckNo. 🤦♀️
I just want a search engine that works. I have zero need for a godawful "AI" hallucinating mansplainer in my results. Just… no.
Time to move off of DDG. What else is out there?
Edit: yes, it seems to be for real:
https://www.reddit.com/r/duckduckgo/comments/1adxgy4/give_duckduckgo_ai_chat_a_spin/
#DuckDuckGo #AI
This entry was edited (7 months ago)
Hypolite Petovan likes this.
reshared this
rail :neofox::therian:
•rail :neofox::therian:
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 reshared this.
⚞ Alexia ⚟
•@Mojeek is often my go-to, but many people dislike it due to how different the search results are.
You may be interested in aggregating results using SearxNG, maybe? https://searx.space
SearXNG instances
searx.spaceMichał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 reshared this.
Sam
•MarkAssPandi
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•katzenberger
•https://social.tchncs.de/@erAck/112214516965898047
@MarkAssPandi
matt at oslo dot town
•@katzenberger @MarkAssPandi All search engines make money from advertising. You just expect them to be 100% free to use and ad-free and cover their expenses how?
I don't think its unreasonable for Qwant to ask to show you ads, especially if they are implemented in a privacy-preserving non-tracking way. The alternative would be to pay a subscription for Qwant.
Elsewhere, Mojeek is nice, but they also introduced AI recently.
https://blog.mojeek.com/2024/04/mojeek-search-summary.html
Mojeek Search Summaries
blog.mojeek.comMarkAssPandi
•matt at oslo dot town
•Someone should update the comparison table on Wikipedia to help people find a good search engine.
🔴 Google = AI / Ads / Tracking
🔴 Bing = AI / Ads / Tracking
🔴 Brave = Cryptocurrency / AI / Anti-LGBT*
🟠 DuckDuckGo = Ads / AI
🟠 Kagi = AI
🟠 Mojeek = Ads / AI
🟠 You.com = Ads / AI
🟡 Qwant = Ads
🟡 Startpage = Ads
🟡 Searx = Complicated
🟢 ???
* Brave CEO has previously financially supported anti-gay marriage law campaigns
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_search_engines
Wikimedia list article
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Jay Hannah reshared this.
Liminal witch 🧙♀️ Sarah
•@matt @MarkAssPandi @katzenberger @svenja One thing I'm missing is a search engine that offers subscription.
I don't like subscriptions that much but for a search engine I think it's the most viable model if we want to avoid Ads and tracking. Someone has to pay to keep the lights on.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•@xgebi both Kagi and Mojeek do.
@matt @MarkAssPandi @katzenberger @svenja
Dragonjion :therian:
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•https://www.mojeek.com/services/search/web-search-api/#pricing
https://www.mojeek.com/services/search/site-search-api/#pricing
Mojeek Search API
www.mojeek.comphi1997
•Edit: I made this post before I learned Mojeek had added AI summarization. I am disappointed in them.
@MarkAssPandi @rysiek @katzenberger
matt at oslo dot town
•@phi1997 @MarkAssPandi @katzenberger Linked up in the thread ☝️ but also here for your convenience 👇
https://blog.mojeek.com/2024/04/mojeek-search-summary.html
Mojeek Search Summaries
blog.mojeek.comsilverwizard
phi1997
•I had not seen that yet when I made that post.
silverwizard likes this.
Jeremy Yap
•@matt @katzenberger @MarkAssPandi
For what it's worth, if we have to do the "lesser evils" thing, I don't see how dropping Mojeek (which has its own index) due to LLM in favor of what will almost inevitably be something using Google or Bing's index is a net positive.
Really the next step is to consider smaller independent indexes (Stract, Right Dao, Alexandria, Yep, etc.) but it seems most folks consider those not usable yet. (personally I disagree, but that's its own can of worms).
matt at oslo dot town
•@jeruyyap Yuppp. I’ve personally been quite happy with Mojeek and considering I’m making AI shit at work it would be very hypocritical of me to stop using them for that.
I’m just trying to state facts, and not lump my personal opinion in here. 🙂
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•Jeremy Yap
•@matt @Mojeek
If you're interested in other options then @Seirdy did an excellent piece on the topic that pretty much covers what's out there for now:
https://seirdy.one/posts/2021/03/10/search-engines-with-own-indexes/
A look at search engines with their own indexes
Seirdy’s HomeMichał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 reshared this.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•@jeruyyap thank you, that is very useful!
@matt @Mojeek @Seirdy
Es(tiss)val 🌻
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•@alice seems so:
https://www.reddit.com/r/duckduckgo/comments/1adxgy4/give_duckduckgo_ai_chat_a_spin/
For now it's only available in the DDG browser it seems.
Es(tiss)val 🌻 reshared this.
Es(tiss)val 🌻
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•Es(tiss)val 🌻
•Emmanuel Revah
•Es(tiss)val 🌻
•Emmanuel Revah
•I'm not sure how suggestions work.
Startpage is basically a anonymisation proxy to Google search. It gives good results, but it doesn't solve the centrality of Googles point of view of the web.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startpage.com
Internet search engine
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Es(tiss)val 🌻
•gnu/m43
•reshared this
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 and Es(tiss)val 🌻 reshared this.
Es(tiss)val 🌻
•gnu/m43 likes this.
Mina
•Es(tiss)val 🌻 likes this.
Eh?!?
•Also, is it limited to some geographic areas?
Es(tiss)val 🌻
•:debian: 𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 :opensuse:
•Cumulonimbus
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•@cumulonimbus Kagi had the Brave kerfuffle:
https://kagifeedback.org/d/2808-reconsider-your-partnership-with-brave
Kagi's main developer's responses in the thread were… underwhelming to say the least.
Reconsider your partnership with Brave - Kagi Feedback
kagifeedback.orgElias Probst
•https://help.kagi.com/kagi/ai/assistant.html
Assistant | Kagi's Docs
help.kagi.comJana
•Emmanuel Revah
•The Privacy Advocate (dt.gl)
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•@Decentralize wait, who's partnered with Leo from Brave?
And who's "Leo from Brave"?
The Privacy Advocate (dt.gl)
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 reshared this.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•pa27
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•https://mstdn.social/@xarvos@outerheaven.club/111126323556614433
🚲 (@xarvos@outerheaven.club)
mstdn.socialpa27
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•woffs
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•Eric the Cerise
•Still early days, but I'm liking #Stract ... a new stand-alone search engine being developed by one person and (last I heard) run on a server in his basement.
#404Media also just published an article extolling a paid SE called #Kagi ... not sure I'm "there" yet (paying for search), but it sounds promising.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•https://neilzone.co.uk/2024/01/from-kagi-back-to-duckduckgo/
https://help.kagi.com/kagi/ai/assistant.html
Assistant | Kagi's Docs
help.kagi.comVinnie (any)
•Bèr Kessels 🐝 🚐 🏄 🌱
•How do you know it will be a "hallucinating mansplainer in my results" ?
Why do you think it will?
Jumping to conclusions and then getting angry at those conclusions is not a very good way to get through life....
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•@berkes I'm doing fine with going through life, thanks. And anything that touches ChatGPT or any other LLM in the context of a search product to me is super sus.
There's ample evidence of LLM chatbots providing completely made up results. I am not going to wait until DDG decides it's "good enough" and integrates it more into their stuff.
RedAlert (Michael)
•https://swisscows.com/de
Deine private und anonyme Suchmaschine Swisscows
swisscows.comqeef
•Startpage - Private Search Engine. No Tracking. No Search History.
www.startpage.comEatsbluecrayon
•Daniel
•Why not continue to use DDG but simply don't use the optional experimental functionality there?
This would give them valuable feedback for what percentage of their user base is interested in this technology.
From what I can see it's optional and an experiment, nothing they force on everyone?
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•Jon Yoder
•ThomasToSpace
•Ville Ruohonen :debian:
•@MetaGer For me Metager has been pretty solid
https://metager.org
MetaGer: Privacy Protected Search & Find
metager.orgkjuh :antifa:🇺🇦🇪🇺🇩🇪😷
•Startpage - Private Search Engine. No Tracking. No Search History.
www.startpage.comJill ☁
•it really sucks! Even #Ecosia has an AI chat now. 🤮
@ Those responsible for these engines, at least let us choose and give us the possibility to deactivate this crap, please. 🙏
Jeremy Yap
•I feel the question of "what else is there" depends on what you're actually looking for.
If you're just looking to use a large index while minimizing the data you're sending back, then DuckDuckGo still works for that. DuckDuckGo and Qwant use Bing's index, while Startpage uses Google's index, and any of those would work for that purpose.
If you're looking for a independent index for general use, Mojeek probably has the largest index that is not Google, Bing, or Yandex.
Jeremy Yap
•Now if you're trying to avoid search engines that are into LLMs, then your options are going to depend on whether the index provider matters.
If only the service you are directly using matters, then you have plenty of options as there's seemingly endless search engines using Google or Bing (especially Bing).
If where the index comes from matters then you're pretty much out of large mainstream indexes and into small independent ones and a major change in search habits.
Jo Dusepo :oud: جوهانا دوسپو
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•noodlejetski :verified_gay:
•Oliwier Jaszczyszyn
•SearXNG instance.
Edit: corrected the domain
Penguinflight
•Simon Hobeck
•The reddit post by DDG says it is just an addon for its browser and aiming for a freemium model.
It does not affects its search results and it allow speople to experiement with LLM whilst still respcting privacy.
I will continue to use DDG so long as their search results are not infected by AI noise.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•Ornaled
•TayFoNay ☕️
•(肉) R_Rou 🇮🇨
•jim
•silverwizard
Hypolite Petovan likes this.
Bob Jonkman
•@silverwizard
I've been using either @Mojeek or #StartPage on my browsers. Over the last two years of using #Mojeek it has become noticeably better, but not so much for StartPage...
silverwizard
Mojeek
•silverwizard
Mojeek
•Search Settings - Mojeek
www.mojeek.comMichał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•@archliberal Kagi has AI crap as well, plus there's the Brave thing.
https://kagifeedback.org/d/2808-reconsider-your-partnership-with-brave/
https://help.kagi.com/kagi/ai/assistant.html
@GossiTheDog
Reconsider your partnership with Brave - Kagi Feedback
kagifeedback.orgJay
•Jeltron
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•Alfred R. Baudisch
•Es(tiss)val 🌻
•That would indeed be enough not to trust them anymore but it's there on the website from Icecat/Firefox too (see previous posts).
#FuckFuckNo
1stAmendmentAbuser
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•@1stAmendmentAbuser can you point me to an "open-source, uncensored AI" that is a model of the size needed for this kind of tasks, please?
Llama does not count, it's been trained at Facebook and nobody really knows what went into the training data.
1stAmendmentAbuser
•RolingMetal
•Recently I started using Ecosia, and it's not bad :)
It uses results from Bing.
But I believe you can also get results from Google, if you want to give up some more privacy.
And apparently, I planted 3 trees already :)
For Google like search results, I'll use Startpage. And for result not coming from big-tech, I like to use Brave search.
Danie van der Merwe
•lj·rk
•FoolishOwl
•@cyrus @firn SearXNG is a proxy that searches and collates results from several search engines. It's useful, but it's not a search engine per se, and dependent upon them.
There are some open feature requests to add ChatGPT to SearXNG, e.g.,
https://github.com/searxng/searxng/issues/2008
Add support for Chat GPT/ChatGPT engine · Issue #2008 · searxng/searxng
GitHub⚞ Alexia ⚟
•@firn SearxNG
Searx is no longer properly maintained
zetabeta
•as a reminder, tell a small hint which is worse.
some could interpret this toot in a way that i go back to google, it's equally bad.
i still think duckduckgo is less worse. actually a lot.
⚞ Alexia ⚟
•@foolishowl
adam solove
•StillIRise1963 for HARRIS
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•@StillIRise1963 yeah, the whole search engines space is bad.
At this point there doesn't seem to be a decent search engine with no AI integration what-so-ever. Sigh.
🗻🏔️⛰️🌋
•Andy
•always vpn to your own host running all your happy tools. One being SearXNG. https://github.com/searxng/searxng
Goes in a docker easily. It’s nice having a multi engine that cleans and sanitizes along the way.
GitHub - searxng/searxng: SearXNG is a free internet metasearch engine which aggregates results from various search services and databases. Users are neither tracked nor profiled.
GitHubFoolishOwl
•@cyrus I figured you'd know, but I'm seeing the root of this thread getting boosted a lot, and people are clearly looking for options, so I thought it was worth making it clear.
I also think that since it's a feature request, it would help if people pushed back on it. This particular feature request would just add it as one more optional engine among a large number, which can be disabled in the config or by the user, so I'm not terribly worried about it.
▶️
•Simon 🥧 man 🥥🌴 🇺🇸
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•LAF and LOVE
•sqrt(-1)
•Dianora (Diane Bruce)
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 reshared this.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•⠠⠵ avuko
•Fabi
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•@jcrabapple how does it make sense to defend "AI" in Search Engine B in a thread that started with me complaining about Search Engine A adding "AI"? Honestly, I am confused here. Help me out.
@archliberal @GossiTheDog
Jcrabapple 💙
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•@jcrabapple DDG is not "shoving" anything down my throat either.
@archliberal @GossiTheDog
Jcrabapple 💙
•Walter van Holst
•Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
•JuliaR
•Henning Deters
•Estarriol, Cat owned Dragon
•Aral Balkan
•Falcon Darkstar
•Genders: ♾️, 🟪⬛🟩; Soni L.
•great. let us know if you find a way out of the search engine rollercoaster entirely...
search engines are bad and cannot be trusted. :/