"we fund Matrix dev by selling encrypted messaging to governments, which includes police: if you don’t like that then please feel free to use a different app" May 9th, 2023 -@element
source https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110340953550548309
source https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110340953550548309
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SQU∄▲KY P▲Nᐊ▲K∄S
•wakest ⁂
•Adrian Cochrane
•ari :prideified:
•Adrian Cochrane
•If XMPP's devs didn't prod the US military to use their tech, then I don't hold this fact against them. That way lies madness!
ari :prideified:
•Adrian Cochrane
•Adrian Cochrane
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Bill Seitz
•So not shocking they'd go along with police involvement.
Bernard Marx
•𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱🍐【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧)
•FoolishOwl
•clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 likes this.
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•Michael Downey 🚩
•OK, so let's have 'em all give our tax money to Microsoft. 🤦🏽♂️
FoolishOwl
•And just in general, you don't collaborate with police.
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Michael Downey 🚩
•Are you aware that government employees regularly participate in infosec events? And that >40% of the Tor Project's annual revenue comes from governments?
FoolishOwl
•Michael Downey 🚩
•Good luck with your cause.
AGF : poemproducer
•always same, technology is bought by capital to protect capital via police state and miliary, inbuild ethics for the people needed
ari :prideified:
•FoolishOwl
•Another issue with Matrix is how it's de facto centralized under the control of Element, the company.
ari :prideified:
•And relies on phone numbers as user IDs, which is, like, wtf?
FoolishOwl
•Probably.
Luna :circleA:
•ari :prideified:
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•KitKat
•@ar @luna @foolishowl @downey matrix.to links don't rely on matrix.to, you don't matrix.to to resolve these links.
And actually most groups are served on other servers as well
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•KitKat
•A matrix.to link does not depend on matrix.to. Clients can and do parse the link without accessing matrix.to
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•KitKat
•Do you understand what I explained?
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•The Doctor
•Alonealastalovedalongthe
•j.r / Julian
•silverwizard likes this.
Alexandre Dulaunoy
•Hypolite Petovan
•Alexandre Dulaunoy
•Hypolite Petovan
•METADESTROYER !! (He/Him)
•Content warning: yelling (not at you OP)
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•Content warning: yelling (not at you OP)
METADESTROYER !! (He/Him)
•Content warning: yelling (not at you OP)
clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛
•Content warning: Yelling (not at you OP)
@EdenDestroyer (He/Him) Wow wut
https://element.io/blog/india-bans-flagship-client-for-the-matrix-network/
Oh wow.
/via https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110315262067249934
@˗ˏˋ wakest ˎˊ˗ @Element
Element
2023-05-05 09:01:54
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SR.Gray
•ophiocephalic 🐍
•https://apps.apple.com/app/vector/id1083446067
Element Messenger
App Storeclacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 likes this.
FoolishOwl
•Adrian Cochrane reshared this.
Flatbush Gardener 🌈
•Adrian Cochrane
•So I believe right now their funding is very meagre, relying on the sort of opensource contributions which have brought others so far!
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Tuxedo Wa-Kamen
•1. Even a non-profit has fund itself somehow. Public funding and government contracts make sense.
2. The alternative for non-US military and/or police would likely be to use one of the big messengers (e.g. WhatsApp) or buy from a company that does "security by obscurity".
In my opinion: Police/military will use some kind of messenger anyway. I would prefer if they used one with less backdoors and more security.
Of course it could happen that police and Matrix get all warm and cuddly with each other. This is definitely a thing that makes Matrix less trustworthy.
clacke: inhibited exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛
•Accepting police like any other customer: Ok, fine.
Actively reaching out: Bad optics, risk for compromise.
Ding Dang Trevor Flowers
•SiderAU
•Snail
•Okay, gonna phase element out of my ESL volunteer work I guess
𝚌𝚑𝚊𝚟𝚊
•Delta Chat: The e-mail messenger
delta.chatshreyan
•Mike, First of his Name
•I provide XMPP messaging for Chinwag users automatically alongside their Fedi service and it's barely a blip in the stats compared to something like Mastodon.
maksu
•A very poor choice of words there. I couldn't pick a worse set even if I tried.
𝓻𝓻𝓪
•Sorry to pop everyone's bubble but XMPP is also widely used in police and military applications. People need to be a bit more realistic about the dual-use nature of internet and computing tools.
It's a bad look to be advertising your cooperation with cops and fully mis-reading your audience here. Also, I do not condone it. However, to the audience: what did you expect? Secure communications is first and foremost a defense industry need.
If use and engagement with police and defense is your standard for whether or not to use a particular set of tools, then do I have some bad news regarding all of open source for you!
justJanne
•Be it Element, Conversations or GPG. No one else is willing to pay enough
Refusing to sell would harm the free software project, but would do nothing against the police using matrix. It's free software after all and they can use it without any support contract. And some governments do exactly that
This is a situation where you can't win either way. Fuck capitalism 🤬
Audric
•IAG
•Tigase
•Tigase is almost completely FOSS/AGPL (save for advanced clustering) and can be deployed and used as such.
Pricing plan for Software License
tigase.net🍃 Nick 🍁
•"Open source" isn't a funding model.
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•jdrch 🇺🇦
•Adrian Cochrane
•I think it is totally fair to judge us by who we're engaging with!
Personally (privileged) I can't get all that worked up about 1312, but I see the counterarguments missing the mark.
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jabberati
•Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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Martin
•@element
silverwizard
Martin
•I know what the police is. There might be bad cops but in general they are doing an important job.
@liaizon @element
cel
•wakest ⁂
•Gautgaut
•Usually the alternative is to use a service from the GAFAM, so I think what Element does is more than OK.
ari :prideified:
•Inken Paper 🇵🇸
•ari :prideified:
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•Inken Paper 🇵🇸
•FoolishOwl
•Steven Roose
•#xmpp #jabber #matrix
Adrian Cochrane
•Hypolite Petovan
•Hypolite Petovan
•Gabriele Svelto
•Gabriele Svelto
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•Hypolite Petovan
•Hypolite Petovan
•@Gabriele Svelto I really don't have to explain anything to you, especially not something you framed in bad faith. Obviously we don't have the same values, and you can't talk anyone out of their values, the same way I probably cant talk to you into growing some.
Values are only meaningful if you are making concessions for them. Pointing out that these personal concessions are somehow unwarranted or inconsistent will only get you a cold shoulder.