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Ok - so - when I run D&D I tend to tell my players "Vote when you wanna level, if everyone agrees you do". And people tend to level when they're bored of their current power set and want new toys.

So many people tell me they'd go straight to level 20, but I've never seen it.

in reply to silverwizard

silverwizard
silverwizard
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I really wonder about this a lot because I wonder what an RPG level *is*.

Most people tell me they want a grim and gritty D&D or a heroic D&D, and yet, so much of the time, with D&D, that's literally a matter of what level the PCs are, and yet no one talks about this with XP.

in reply to silverwizard

silverwizard
silverwizard
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The worst thing that has happened was a player started complaining the party was too high level.

They got to level 17 over the course of 4 years of weekly sessions.

in reply to silverwizard

cyber witch (electrical arc)
cyber witch (electrical arc)
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oh that's a cool idea! I feel like it wouldn't make sense for people to level straight to 20 unless you're trying to minimax, and DND games usually avoid minimaxing in favor of roleplaying
in reply to cyber witch (electrical arc)

silverwizard
silverwizard
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Yeah! and it divorces the leveling from like, "Ok, we should kill this dude to get XP and not talk to him". Instead it makes leveling "Oh! That was cool. I feel like we've hit the point where it makes sense for us to fight stronger enemies" or "Oh, cool! I did a cool thing! Wouldn't it be cool if my sorcerer could cast lightning bolt now?!"
in reply to silverwizard

Estrus Flask 🍯
Estrus Flask 🍯
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@HippyWizard I like about level 4 to 8.

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@Silverwizard
in reply to Estrus Flask 🍯

Estrus Flask 🍯
Estrus Flask 🍯
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@HippyWizard Honestly one of my biggest gripes about D&D games is that I'd prefer if I could have level 6 numbers and level 20 features.

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@Silverwizard
in reply to Estrus Flask 🍯

silverwizard
silverwizard
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@PunishedLorelai Yeah, that's a totally valid! The cool powers are fun - but the high level numbers break down very badly! And D&D puts its coolest powers in its most badly made places.

And honestly, I am a 12-15 range for games, but 5e wasn't made for over level 12 it feels!

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@Estrus Flask 🍯
in reply to silverwizard

silverwizard
silverwizard
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@PunishedLorelai But I also think that it says something that so many people can say this about D&D. If D&D is fundamentally about zero-to-hero play and leveling up - why do so many people *have* a favourite range that isn't 20?!

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@Estrus Flask 🍯
in reply to silverwizard

Estrus Flask 🍯
Estrus Flask 🍯
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@HippyWizard I've barely played 5e. I will say that the numbers seem to stay pretty small, except for health.

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@Silverwizard
in reply to Estrus Flask 🍯

silverwizard
silverwizard
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@PunishedLorelai They seem small, except for how easily they breakdown.

My players got mad at me when I made an NPC with +17s... using PHB only.... At level 12...

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@Estrus Flask 🍯
in reply to silverwizard

Estrus Flask 🍯
Estrus Flask 🍯
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@HippyWizard That does seem pretty strong.

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@Silverwizard
in reply to Estrus Flask 🍯

silverwizard
silverwizard
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@PunishedLorelai I mean, I usually had that at level 1 back in 3e days, so it's probably an improvement...

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@Estrus Flask 🍯
in reply to silverwizard

Estrus Flask 🍯
Estrus Flask 🍯
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@HippyWizard That *definitely* seems like a lot at level 1.

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@Silverwizard
in reply to Estrus Flask 🍯

silverwizard
silverwizard
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@PunishedLorelai I have a power gaming problem. I can't quit

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@Estrus Flask 🍯
in reply to silverwizard

Urist Uristson
Urist Uristson
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@HippyWizard Straight to level 20 would be a nightmare. It would be like back when I was playing wow and you'd encounter somebody at max level who had clearly bought their character. Nobody would know how the fuck to play their class at that level

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@Silverwizard
in reply to Urist Uristson

silverwizard
silverwizard
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@PizzaFacts2go New plan
everyone is level 20 and the enemies are bouncy balls that travel a number of squares equal to damage dealt in a random direction whenever you hit one, when they hit a wall they bounce randomly, and they deal 2d8 damage to a player when they hit them

2000 HP per ball

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@Urist Uristson
in reply to silverwizard

Urist Uristson
Urist Uristson
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@HippyWizard I like it because it brings back a reason to use miniatures to dnd

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@Silverwizard
in reply to Urist Uristson

Urist Uristson
Urist Uristson
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@HippyWizard For all my quibbles with your system I know that RPGs give you verbs over time for a reason.

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@Silverwizard
in reply to Urist Uristson

Urist Uristson
Urist Uristson
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@HippyWizard Granted this would be way more of a problem in like Pathfinder than 5.0

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@Silverwizard
in reply to Urist Uristson

silverwizard
silverwizard
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@PizzaFacts2go Yeah - I love adding new verbs - but lots of people hang up on them.

I'm working on a system where characters are made of cards, and there's shopping-based-nerdery - and I'm hoping it allows very complicated characters without causing too much of that problem

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@Urist Uristson
in reply to silverwizard

Urist Uristson
Urist Uristson
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@HippyWizard Being obsessed with caves of qud lately I feel you and love the idea of that. Super modular. Super customizable. Interactions

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@Silverwizard
in reply to Urist Uristson

silverwizard
silverwizard
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@PizzaFacts2go I really need to set aside time to play Qud...

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@Urist Uristson
in reply to silverwizard

silverwizard
silverwizard
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@PizzaFacts2go If I say "I've not had time to play Qud because I'm too busy Net Hacking" understand that I'm not playing a roguelike...

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@Urist Uristson
in reply to silverwizard

Urist Uristson
Urist Uristson
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@HippyWizard I refuse to understand. I will make it an awkward misunderstanding every time. I will get excited and ask how far you've gotten them get all quiet and disappointed when I find the truth

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@Silverwizard
in reply to Urist Uristson

silverwizard
silverwizard
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@PizzaFacts2go I got to the Lair with a Gnoll Skald

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@Urist Uristson
in reply to silverwizard

Urist Uristson
Urist Uristson
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@HippyWizard Gotta crawl before you can walk

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@Silverwizard
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