It doesn't matter if Firefox's AI is good, it doesn't matter. Firefox is doing this to advertise, and the people thinking of switching wont switch to firefox if it's touting AI.
You can't compete with Google on features, because Google makes up features, forces them on the W3C where possible, and then ignores standards if everyone else disagrees, and then complains everyone else is non-compliant/broken. And devs listen to that.
Google will also try to compete on privacy. You need to compete on burnout, or the fact that google's AI stuff broke it.
From what I understand, Firefox's usage rate is so low that the only reason it can be used on the Web at all is hard-won anti-monopoly policies and an outspoken minority of tech workers who demand support for it. And that's grown extremely thin, and Mozilla's management seems determined to eliminate that support.
Google effectively controls the WWW, and I think we need to be thinking about retreat.
@FoolishOwl I mean, I think there's definitely real value in not giving up on Firefox. But I also think we should reject the web, yeah. But it's worth thinking about how Firefox would work.
The only way I can see the project surviving is if the remaining Firefox developers follow the examples of MariaDB and LibreOffice anf, as a group, create a new fork, or perhaps reinforce an existing fork.
Even then, best case, it's going to be a niche product for at least a few years, locked out of many commercial and government websites.
But it might survive the inevitable collapse of the LLM bubble, so maybe it would work.
@FoolishOwl I mean, the LLM Bubble is a very confusing one. It's, on its face, failing, but it's a good enough skill at messing with marks that marks keep buying in. So I've no idea when this is going to pop, so it's going to be impossible to predict when to stop riding the wave. NFTs are dumb on their face but people can kinda invent images of the future with generative models, even if they can't invent uses that are more valuable than blockchain.
But I mean - have you looked at LibreWolf and co? I'm also currently building uzbl right now to see what the status of Uzbl/Surf/whatever is currently doing.
The thing is, from where I sit, literally, there are dozens of giant data centers under construction. The LLM isn't like NFTs, a speculative bubble involving a few rich dumbasses. All the major software companies and hardware companies are totally committed to LLM and "AI" development.
@FoolishOwl Yeah - the people get in on this bubble are a different form of marks.
People talk about how the people pushing bitcoin have changed to people pushing LLMs. But the people *buying in* to LLMs are different than the people buying into NFTs. The idiots who bought NFTs are mostly still super big on NFTs, but there's no general will, whereas now I feel like the average person doesn't care about LLMs, but it doesn't matter because their company does. The only fix for it is going to be companies being legally responsible for their LLM's statements.
silverwizard
You can't compete with Google on features, because Google makes up features, forces them on the W3C where possible, and then ignores standards if everyone else disagrees, and then complains everyone else is non-compliant/broken. And devs listen to that.
Google will also try to compete on privacy. You need to compete on burnout, or the fact that google's AI stuff broke it.
reshared this
knightly and James Endicott reshared this.
FoolishOwl
•From what I understand, Firefox's usage rate is so low that the only reason it can be used on the Web at all is hard-won anti-monopoly policies and an outspoken minority of tech workers who demand support for it. And that's grown extremely thin, and Mozilla's management seems determined to eliminate that support.
Google effectively controls the WWW, and I think we need to be thinking about retreat.
silverwizard
FoolishOwl
•The only way I can see the project surviving is if the remaining Firefox developers follow the examples of MariaDB and LibreOffice anf, as a group, create a new fork, or perhaps reinforce an existing fork.
Even then, best case, it's going to be a niche product for at least a few years, locked out of many commercial and government websites.
But it might survive the inevitable collapse of the LLM bubble, so maybe it would work.
silverwizard
@FoolishOwl I mean, the LLM Bubble is a very confusing one. It's, on its face, failing, but it's a good enough skill at messing with marks that marks keep buying in. So I've no idea when this is going to pop, so it's going to be impossible to predict when to stop riding the wave. NFTs are dumb on their face but people can kinda invent images of the future with generative models, even if they can't invent uses that are more valuable than blockchain.
But I mean - have you looked at LibreWolf and co? I'm also currently building uzbl right now to see what the status of Uzbl/Surf/whatever is currently doing.
FoolishOwl
•silverwizard likes this.
silverwizard
@FoolishOwl Yeah - the people get in on this bubble are a different form of marks.
People talk about how the people pushing bitcoin have changed to people pushing LLMs. But the people *buying in* to LLMs are different than the people buying into NFTs. The idiots who bought NFTs are mostly still super big on NFTs, but there's no general will, whereas now I feel like the average person doesn't care about LLMs, but it doesn't matter because their company does. The only fix for it is going to be companies being legally responsible for their LLM's statements.
cheetah_spottycat
•silverwizard
@cheetah_spottycat 100%! Definitely!
Google has been actively sabotaging the web from all fronts for decades!
But Mozilla* really needs to figure out getting Mozilla** in check, but that seems unlikely
* The not for profit
** the for profit