I've been thinking about the lack of algorithmic* feeds in the #Fediverse and wondering how much that is hurting growth and retention. Big social media spend billions on getting and keeping eyeballs, and algorithmic timelines are a huge part of that.
I think it's right to avoid it, but I worry that will just forever stunt growth. The alternative is human curators, I think, but I have no idea how to make that happen.
*Yes, I know reverse chronological is an algorithm, algo-pedants.
#mastodon
I think it's right to avoid it, but I worry that will just forever stunt growth. The alternative is human curators, I think, but I have no idea how to make that happen.
*Yes, I know reverse chronological is an algorithm, algo-pedants.
#mastodon
John Conway
•no-no
•i feel like the latter one sort of doesn't fit, even tho that's the direction corporate social media has gone. i dunno. does that actually help artists sell work? hard to know if even your followers will see your stuff
John Conway
•Personally I actually prefer the forum format, and if I was just doing this for my own amusement/making connections, that's what I'd do.
no-no
•i still question the usefulness of "the algorithm" for reach. someone will probably write an app like that for fedi sooner or later, and it's not a bad idea. just not one that interests me much
John Conway
•Bel Lion
•John Conway
•All the huge social networks use algorithmic feeds. You may say its so they can control the message, but I say the simpler explanation is that it keeps people engaged because they like it. TikTok is a case in point. Many people love the algorithm there.
I'm not saying this is the way to go, but I don't think that just assuming people don't like recommendation algorithms is the way forward either.
Bel Lion
•That's why I asked for a citation. All I have right now is my own observations, which seem to conflict with yours on this issue. I was hoping that you might have some research source I could read and perhaps understand your view better.
John Conway
•What would you do or change about the current situation?
Bel Lion
•Where I perceive this being a problem is if such implementations happen at the instance level.
John Conway
•John Conway
•From my own selfish perspective, yes, the Fediverse is too small to support the number of creators on here. It needs to grow for that reason .
From a broader perspective, I'm afraid that hovering around a couple of million users isn't the kind of change in the internet landscape we needed. It's no where near enough to break the hold of the giants.
John Conway
•Also, it's just not really big enough for creators to make a living.
John Conway
•John Conway
•John Conway
•John Conway
•John Conway
•On the other hand, at least it wouldn't be one or two billionaires deciding, and that would be a huge win in itself.
silverwizard
It's about being able to cross-server find accounts.
Meaning, of course, I think that cross-instance search is the best tool for this. Since it let's people build local feeds with exciting and regular content.
John Conway
•Hypolite Petovan
•like this
Tio, Scifijunkie and Cătă like this.
Tio
•silverwizard
I understand that creating on the internet is a major business thing these days, and I don't know if I think it's worth burning down a network for, but I think that it's something to consider.
Hypolite Petovan
•silverwizard
I think John is not fully correct, but I think the lack of stickiness slow things down
Hypolite Petovan likes this.
wakest ⁂
•I moved to the fediverse full time and tried for years to bring people here from facebook and the #1 complaint I got was "you are the only one I know that uses it"
a large portion of people use social media to interact with already existing friends not make new ones.
silverwizard likes this.
wakest ⁂
•John Conway
•We may as well be hanging out on a big forum (which is fine if you want that, but that's not why I'm here).
Henry Meyers
•John Conway
•Henry Meyers
•Mike Taylor 🦕
•John Conway
•Mike Taylor 🦕
•John Conway
•Mike Taylor 🦕
•John Conway
•Mike Taylor 🦕
•(Nothing wrong with wanting that, of course; but I think it's a mistake to want THIS to be THAT.)
John Conway
•Mike Taylor 🦕
•John Conway
•I'm not sure where in this conversation everyone got the idea that I was arguing that algorithmic timelines are a great idea – I explicitly say the opposite in the first post – my point is that Mastodon competes with big social networks, and algorithmic timelines are a competitive advantage for many, many people.
We need to give them something competitive.
Mike Taylor 🦕
•Also: why would algorithmic timelines delivery you more potential-customer eyeballs than chronological timelines?
John Conway
•1. A filter, prioritising the most popular posts from the people you follow, which is meant to keep the entertainment value high
2. A recommendation engine, which is meant to aid in discovery
We can probably do without the first. The second gets to the huge discoverability problem on Mastodon. People don't know who to follow or how to find stuff that's interesting to them, and they often give up.
Mike Taylor 🦕
•I think the answer to that is search, but we've already discussed the short-sighted cultural factors that have so far prevented this.
John Conway
•Mike Taylor 🦕
•John Conway
•Mike Taylor 🦕
•John Conway
•silverwizard
https://dir.friendica.social
DannekRose
•John Conway
•Mike Taylor 🦕
•